Indeed, their participation in the Mass is more robust and unified than it ever was with the 1973 missal. 1 decade ago. We don’t separate Christ’s body from his cross because we value both his body and his cross. Their website has an admittedly clever name. I’m only sorry that when I first sampled the new translation I commented that some of the prayers seemed clunky, and the editors at Misguided Missal quoted me. But that's a good question and I'd like to see an informed answer. They say they are protesting out of “love for the church” and pretend that they are concerned that the new mass is not easily pronounced or understood. The monastic could not have a family, because the ascetic life was simply incompatible with raising children and seeing to a spouse. Happily, we have been spared the politically correct nightmare that would have been foisted on us by our “ecumenical partners” with a combination of bogus scholarship, political manipulation and emotional blackmail. Persecution drove many to become monks and nuns. If they did I might be interested in becoming one. Here you go. When we take a look at the 1998 missal it becomes obvious that much of it was driven by the feminist agenda that dominated the mainstream Protestant churches throughout the 1990’s. Why are theists quick to pull up the 'I am a persecuted victim' card to defend their religious lunacy/crutch. Father Dwight Longenecker is the pastor of Our Lady of the Rosary parish in Greenville, South Carolina. Get answers by asking now. Relevance. Can nuns go to the beach? Lv 7. But they do, of course. If you see a comment that doesn’t meet our standards, please flag it so a moderator may remove it. I thought one disgruntled blog reader could easily be dismissed as a sad and angry revolutionary disappointed that the younger generation had rejected her ideals as much as she had rejected her parents’. The Crucifix Why do Protestants have Such an aversion? Those promoting this agenda wanted “inclusive human language” and “expansive/inclusive God language.” For those who are innocent of such “newspeak”, “inclusive human language” means we mustn’t refer to the whole human race as “men”. Baptist churches teach that there are only two offices laid out in scripture-pastors and deacons. I reckon we’re just finding our balance and the real fruit of Vatican II is only now beginning to ripen. Catholics have them; Protestants don’t. Maybe because Protestantism was founded by a defected monk (Martin Luther) who married a defected nun (Katharina von Bora) ...? That’s not meant as an insult to families – it’s just a fact. So they don't have monks, nuns, they don't have lint and they get so obsessed with "following the traditions of man" that they do just that. I had to so some checking, and the other Protestants that have similar systems don't use the title of 'priest'; except for the Latter-day Saints. He s… Crisis Magazine is a project of Sophia Institute Press. and? God the Son died as man to save the world, which means that his human body is sacred and worthy of our worship. In any event, the usual line of reasoning is that Protestants, Catholics and Jews have ministers, priests and rabbis. http://anglicansonline.org/resources/orders.html. Catholic believe that when we die, it is possible for us to be resurrected and be alive in Christ. On the other hand, St. Paul was very adamant about celebrating the crucified Christ : Verbum. May 15, 2019 - However much Protestants and Catholics can work together on social issues, and however much we may share an early creedal tradition, there … Jesus said "I would not have you take them out of the world but keep them from the evil one." Where did you get the idea they don’t? Comments do not represent the views of Crisis magazine, its editors, authors, or publishers. 11 Answers. How the whining ex Catholics love to whimper about the hatchet faced nuns who rapped their knuckles with a ruler, or how they like to mock the nuns who patrolled the school dance, thrusting a ruler between the pelvises of a close dancing boy … Most people don’t know that nuns have to follow a very strict set of rules – here are those rules, plus a few other facts about nunhood. Plenty to choose from. There is something feisty and admirable about a nun. As a parish priest I have had not one complaint from the people. Never mind that this is a direct quote from Jesus himself in the gospels, and never mind that the limited atonement (if that’s what it means) is balanced by the words the priest pronounces, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.”. No lengthy rants or block quotes. They do this to remind themselves to keep faith that God will provide. Nuns must live in poverty. Protestant ministers certainly study the early church fathers in the seminary. Protestants claim "sola scriptura" which means if they don't like something no mater how many verses point to a given practice they will toss out a practice. Finally, he stomped out of our building and told our building manager exactly what was on his mind: “You guys aren’t very good Catholics!” By definition Protestants do not make very good Catholics. Protestants are exactly that…protest-ant. We walked. Other reformers, like John Calvin, followed him. Question: "Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?" through Jesus Christ our LORD. Well, Catholicism says that “humanity must discover its unity and salvation” within a church. He is the author, most recently, of Immortal Combat: Confronting the Heart of Darkness (Sophia Institute Press, 2020). The most famous of these travesties was a faux Trinitarian blessing and baptismal formula, “in the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer.”. When Protestants broke from the Catholic Church.....? How can Christians keep believing? When Protestants ask why Catholics use a crucifix instead of a bare cross, the answer then is twofold. Why dont protestants study the early church fathers? – DJClayworth Sep 28 '11 at 19:26 | show 2 more comments. I was reading a book called "Catholics and Protestants, what can we learn from each other" and I was thinking " there really isn't any reason why Protestants don't ask Mary and the saints to intercede on their prayers, we just don't do it just because" and I'm starting to think this might not be the only thing we don't do " just because". Instead we must use words like “Humankind” or “People”. Hi, a short vent and then some questions. In fact, their real agenda is that kind of politically correct feminism that continues to be all the rage in academia. Nuns have organization that … The new words are not only beautiful, but they have a rugged solidity to them which the 70s mass lacked. They retired from the world, took vows of chasity, dressed in modest black outfits and were not bound to give of their property. All comments may be removed at the moderators’ discretion. A trusted and beloved ecumenical partner had suddenly and effectively walked away from the table.’ Boo hoo. Atheists like to claim they don't believe in Jesus...? Your verse has not relationship to the question. Haven't you heard of the Anglican orders? Church historian and Newman scholar, Fr Ian Ker observes that it has usually taken about fifty years for any council to really get into the bloodstream of the church. Kielbasi February 4, 2008, 2:29am #2. When you visit the site you’ll see that the protesters are part of the definite artically-challenged “We are Church”. No. You can sign in to give your opinion on the answer. Does anyone else kind of feel like Joe Biden may be the antichrist? Nuns take a vow of poverty, so they actually don’t make any money at all. Then I discovered that her mood was a movement. In Sweden we have several Lutheran monasteries (only the last decades, after 400 years of no monasteries in Sweden), and actually there is now also one evangelical monastery, founded by a pentecostal pastor a few years ago! so what? Catholics conclude with “deliver us from evil,” whereas most Protestants, following Matthew 6:13 in the King James Version, go on to say something like, “For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.” What do you think of the answers? The Misguided Missal website reports that, “Presbyterian liturgist Horace Allen said that after he read the 2001 Roman document, he slumped in his chair and wept. Liturgy, Sisters, on the other hand, have taken simple vows and commit themselves to work within the diocese or abroad on missions. Why don’t Protestants read things like this, written a mere 120 years after the Ascension of our Lord, and not immediately question why it is that they think they are more like the first Christians? The battle between Catholics and Protestants is rooted in history. Keep it brief. So what happened and why have we been spared the triumph of the trendy feminists? Why don't Protestants have monks and nuns? “Expansive/inclusive God language” means that whenever possible we must weed out all those offensive references to God as being masculine. So is it back to nuns with rulers? Why did they do away with Nuns, which allowed women to serve God, and gave them authority in the church? Nuns, properly so called, have taken solemn vows and received a papal enclosure. It was just the way she felt. There is also at least one religious order run by a Methodist, and a number of communal Protestant orders. And let's not forget how many Protestants are members of the Third Order of St. Francis. If there’s any doubt, let it be on the record that I think the new translation is fantastic, and what slight problems there may be are far outweighed by its strengths. She has become a rep for this Christian Jewelery Company called Grace Sterling. A group of graying radicals have put together a website attacking the new translation, and using their dislike as a tool to dissent from just about everything in the Catholic Church that is on its way up. yes. One of the reasons Saints were named in the first place was to provide an example of a good Christian to illiterate Europe. Favourite answer. is the late actor Bruce Lee in heaven or hell? Haven't you heard of the Anglican orders? Especially a nun with a ruler. It's not something that I had thought about before, but why wouldn't they?? If they did I might be interested in becoming one. New Translation, They give all of their money they earn (if they earn any) to the church and trust that the church will allocate the money to provide them with food water and shelter. So a reader of my blog commented that the new translation made her angry because it was clearly an insult to gay people and women. Their real agenda is revealed because they are championing the ill fated 1998 translation of the missal. 5. Protestant negativity toward monasticism can be traced back to the Reformers, particularly Martin Luther. In 2001 Catholics pulled out. It wouldn't surprise me if there weren't one or two that do. there go those terrible Protestant Christians again. Still have questions? All comments must directly address the article. Now, in no way am I an expert, but I can speculate based off of living with a Lutheran and myself being a Catholic. It is a Catholic thing. Revelation 1:8 shows that every Born Again believer is a king and priest unto God and His Father. Many Protestants practice Franciscan and Benedictine spirituality, both individually and communally. Nuns, When I was witnessing this in the Anglican Church in the 1990s part of the plan was also to cut out references to God as Father whenever possible. I, for one, am delighted that we walked away from a partnership that was disastrous. Protestants have fearsome and holy women, but they don’t have nuns. At Thanksgiving at my inlaws my sister-in-law showed me her new endeavor. Why do Christians say the Our Father (the “Lord’s Prayer”) slightly differently? Unless you’re a Catholic or you watch a lot of horror films, you probably don’t encounter nuns in your day-to-day life. So prayers that used to begin by addressing the Heavenly Father were routinely sanitized to refer to “God” or “Creator”. Answer: This is a simple question with a complicated answer, because there are varying degrees of, and reasons for, animosity between any two religious groups. Is the Catholic Church turning back the clock? Baptist churches do not have monks or nuns. Remove the masculine pronoun for God whenever you can. In 1537, he wrote that monastic vows "must be absolutely abolished." Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. That is to say, a new-old spirit, for Father Folkmass and Sister Sandals and all the felt banner brigade are squealing because they think a wave of traditionalism is sweeping the church, and it is all summed up by the horrid new translation which has no time for inclusive language and uses difficult words like “begotten” and “consubstantial”. they serve in countries all over the world, helping the poor, feeding the hungry,sheltering the homeless, educating, and providing health care, innoculations, orphanages, and a host of other ways of showing God's love. Why? So they don't have monks, nuns, they don't have lint and they get so obsessed with "following the traditions of man" that they do just that. Protestants are somewhat allergic to statues, and the crucifix is sort of a statue, isn’t it. Read more at www.dwightlongenecker.com. Update 2: The Doctor, if you ever had a Nun for a teacher you would know who runs the church. The new translation is a particularly sweet and juicy fruit. He also frequently and enthusiastically attacked monasticism in his writings and sermons. There are a good number of them worldwide. I do understand, however, why we don’t care about it, today. And this is just a partial listing. But they do, of course. For her it is clear that the church is shifting to the dark old ways of nuns with rulers, and that the new translation was a symptom of the harsh, reactionary, hierarchical, patriarchal, heterosexual, misogynistic old fashioned, pre-Vatican II church. What it comes down to is that our Protestant friends don’t think their ministers have any special spiritual authority more than anyone else. Tagged as They will never venture out and cannot receive visitors at their convent, under pain of excommunication. Throughout the 1990s the Catholic liturgists had been working ecumenically with the Protestants to use agreed texts. So the foot fetish troll (aka No Chance Without Jesus) is falsely accusing me of being the foot fetish troll to cover his tracks again??? But nowadays, again, there are Protestant monks and nuns, although of course not as many as in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Here is a link to their Site on the web sterlinggracejewelry.com. There are a good number of them worldwide. ‘I realized that something terrible had happened which in my own worst imaginings I had never anticipated. A quick look comparison of the 1973, 1998 and 2011 translations illustrates the point. Update: ha ha Bobby Jim, study the story not the words. Vatican II. "Could any man of sound judgment suppose that the first, second and third days (of creation) had ...? Protestants claim "sola scriptura" which means if they don't like something no mater how many verses point to a given practice they will toss out a practice. deanarrca November 24, 2007, 2:01pm #1. Are we reversing all the ‘gains’ of the second Vatican Council? Especially a nun with a ruler. Also they say that we should celebrate the resurrected Christ, not the dead Christ. It’s called A Misguided Missal. They’re wringing their hands and expressing “concern” and even “deep concern” that the new translation tell us that Jesus died for “many” and so everyone won’t be automatically saved after all. Even though he saw the sign which clearly stated his car would be towed, he just couldn’t believe a church would do this. They protest constantly. There is something feisty and admirable about a nun. Of course she didn’t make any specific reference to the lines in the new translation that insult women and gay people. Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox Christians, Taoists, Jains, Hindus, and Buddhists are some of the religious denominations that have nuns. All rights reserved. Are the writings of St. Justin inconsistent, or are there other early documents that show Christianity in a more Protestant light, or what? The seminaries for the more established denominations like the Presbyterians and Lutherans are very well informed on the matter. No profanity, ad hominems, hot tempers, or racial or religious invectives. solarius. They can't even answer basic questions like how they know the Bible is true without circular references, ? Which rude atheist wrote this? Crisis isn’t responsible for the content of the comments box. © Copyright 2020 Crisis Magazine. One of the things I have always found most delightful about the Catholic Church is nuns. Apologetics. I am a thoroughgoing fan of the new translation, and I wouldn’t mind a few nuns with rulers either. they have street bullies *ahem*, I mean preachers, instead. Luther was himself a monk, and after his conversion, he became progressively more opposed to the practice. Answer Save. The Vatican decided that the agreed ecumenical texts were driven by a modernist, politically correct agenda and decided to go it alone. they have Elders - kind of the same thing just not in a full time capacity. So in the Invitation to Prayer in 1973 the people reply, “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name…” The 1998 translation, on the other hand says, “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of God’s name.” See? How the whining ex Catholics love to whimper about the hatchet faced nuns who rapped their knuckles with a ruler, or how they like to mock the nuns who patrolled the school dance, thrusting a ruler between the pelvises of a close dancing boy and girl while crying in an Irish accent, “Come now, you two– leave room for the Holy Spirit!”, For the graying revolutionaries who lament the turn away from the all encompassing “Spirit of Vatican 2”, it turns out that the new translation of the Mass has become a symbol of a new spirit within the Catholic Church. Calvin devotes a large portion of Book 4, Chapter 13 of his Institutes to the question. Established denominations like the Presbyterians and Lutherans are very well informed on the web sterlinggracejewelry.com event the. Ca n't even answer basic questions like how they know the Bible true! To the Reformers, like John Calvin, followed him crucifix instead a! 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